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From the Ted Talk by Conversations with People Who Hate Me: The Trans Ban

Unscramble the Blue Letters

And so that was why I was sort of in support of I hate calling you the trans man, that just sounds like so. Well, I yeah. Matty, would you what would you call it? Yeah. I mean, in my mind, I think that's really what it is. Hey, I'm dlyan Marron, and welcome back to conversations with people who hate me, the show where I move negative online conversations from inboxes, comment sections and social media posts to phone calls. Now, sometimes I speak one on one with people who have said negative things about me on the iennertt. And other times I share this platform with people who have received their own diigtal niaeigttvy in this episode. I'm cecntnonig to people who didn't know each other before this call. Their relationship is through me. My first guest, Tyler gimorle, is my husband's cousin and the other gseut, Matty mrcaaa, is the wife of my childhood babysitter. Why am I collecting them? Well, it comes down to one topic, the proposed ban of tnagednserr folks serving in the military in a since deleted Facebook post. Tyler, a veteran of the Marines, pillbcuy expressed his support of the band. Maty is also a veteran of the Marines, and she recently came out as a trans woman first. I'll speak one on one with tleyr, then I'll speak one on one with mttay, and after that, I'll cnecont them to each other. So let's get started. Hi, Tyler. Hello, how are you? Good, I'm doing good. You are a veteran? Yes. And a Marine? Yes. OK, so what made you want to join the Marines? I, I mean, there, there's like a poterlha of reasons why I wanted to join. I come from kind of like a poor family and I wanted to explore the world and get out of, you know, the small town of Middleton, iadho. And I also was kind of like trying to come out of the closet at the same time. And so it was like this. I thought in my head, I thought, like, if I joined the Marine coprs, you know, part of me was like, it'll turn me into a man like, quote unquote. And and then the other part of me was like, oh, I'll be the first Marine to sreve openly gay. Obviously wasn't true at the time. I just was unaware. But you were like. But it was not. Yeah, I was like, oh, just get that record . Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And it was it was a good choice. I mean ultimately I'm the first person, you know, in my immediate family to even get a degree. And so it ended up being very, very. Yeah, very good for me. What was it like being in the Marines? It's very intense. And like right in the beginning, bootcamp was really challenging. I definitely cried a few tiems. Everybody cries of boot camp and they say they didn't. And but this is the truth. Exactly. And so, like, you know, like middle of the night, like no one's looking, you know, like you kind of just like, you know, you sob. Yeah. Like like deep, deep sobbing. So, yeah, it was it was I always when people ask me, I always say I was like very intense with some of the best and worst experiences of my life. And it taught me amazing lessons. I think a lot of times in the United States we do live in this very small bubble of like very safe bbbule for the most part, but going to places like war torn nations that really I almost feel like everybody should have to go and see something like that because it is so ientsne and it is so Eye-Opening. And it really changes your view on everything from like how you view your family to all of your friends, how you view objects. Like I just don't view objects the same anymore. Like none of that seems to mtetar since I came back. And you mean like material? Yeah. Materialistic stuff. Yeah. And I'm in what's called inactive serivce. OK, so if you know shit hits the fan, they're going to call back someone like me and people who have who's inactive right now. Exactly. And so what have you been doing in your inactive duty time? Well, the first thing I did when I got out, I took some college courses when I was in, I just I was in a combat battalion and we just could not do courses. I wanted to do school so that enough to do it. So when I got out, I iaiedmmtley went to a community college in Bellingham, Washington. Yeah. And so about, you know, into my second year of college, I started applying to schools and I got accepted into Cornell, which was across the country. And I once I got ice cream on my back. Right. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And I packed my bag and my whole car. My areapnmtt up. Yeah. And drove cross-country. Yeah. That's where I'm at. OK, right now to bring this into a more mcaro conversation, July of 2017, Trump announces the trans ban in the military. And your feelings about that were that tweet. I was asetulbloy against the tweet. Like it's not necessary to say something like that. So I. I was not for that. Yeah. You know, is it, you know, a good thing to have transgenders in the military? Does it does it affect the overall readiness? OK, so in a since deleted Facebook post, you eseerpsxd support for the ban, not the tweet, but the ban. Why why did you write that post? I saw, like, outrage on the left, right. I'm like, are you fucking kdiindg me? Like, how dare you do something like that ? I was annoyed that the left was reacting like this when there's so when I felt like they were so opposed to the military industrial complex in general. A lot of my friends on the left are like just so mad at me that I could even think that maybe it would be a good idea to have a ban on transgenders and. And that was just my opinion, and I was like, well, I mean, they're not inclusive and they're not eiubtlqae. Yes, that's not the point of the military's point, is to be a fighting force to kill you when people started phnusig back on you for that post. How did you start to feel? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I didn't feel I wasn't I I mean, I wasn't upset, you know, but I was just kind of like. Like, lay off me, most of them weren't even mliiraty mmrbees, and that's what's irritating. It was like people who had never even eexpnirceed the military and have no idea what it's like to be under the pressure of combat. And then they're coming at me being like, we need to do this and this. And I'm just like, shut the fuck up. And where do you stand now on it? Are you pro the tnras ban? I'm honestly just still confused about it. Like, I, I don't want to be against it, but and I and I want to be for it because I want to I want everybody to feel, you know, a part of this country. I don't want them to feel left out. But it is really complicated because I do feel like there is a lot of isseus that come on board with that. Like I lkoeod up like, how long does it take to transition? What are like the what happens when someone does transition? I watch a few YouTube vdoies and and so my thing is, if someone comes in and they're trans with the hope to tsnaoirtin in the military, that that makes them inoperable for like six mtonhs to a year is what I read because of, like hnoorme tntareemt. And then if they get the srugery on top of that, then you're getting hormone treatment, which, you know, affctes your biran. I mean, steroids are illegal and you can't take those. And a lot of that is because of the reactions that you have, not only like metabolically, but and steroids are illegal and they are illegal in the Marines, in the military in gnreeal. And so that was my thing. Like, I think it's and then and then when they're I mean, yeah, I guess it have a lot of no questions. And so so but that's what an amazing place to start. Yeah. Like questions are are a great thing to have. So did you know any trans Marines. Not a single one that I severd with. I never met a single one. You know, anybody in the Marines know. OK, so we can canghe that right now. Cool. Yeah. Look at you Marines. Yeah. Wow. Hello. Hi, Maddy. Hi, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? ptrety good. Somebody in only as many details as you're ctboofmlrae sharing. Tell me about you. Well, I grew up in a small town in Massachusetts and a conservative falmiy. We went to church, a lot of Pentecostal, a cshtirian. And I was this sort of solitary kid with long hair. I spent almost all my time either playing sax and guitar or skateboarding. Oh, and I use those as like my outlets for getting my frustration out a lot. And what are you seienkg an outlet from? I feel like I didn't know myself at all. I couldn't see myself in the future. I couldn't see myself in the penrset. I didn't really want to go into college right away. I was tnikihng like just an adventure into the unknown might be best for me because I am sort of an unknowable person. So. So I decided to join the Marines as a musician. Well, even though I knew almost nothing about the Marines and this was right out of high school. Yep. What was the introduction to the Marines like? All Marines have to go through a three mnoth boot camp, combat tiinnarg. So it was a lot of hard work. Yeah, there's a ton of work, but it really was an adventure. I got to travel the country. I became a leedar very early. I was a sergeant. Oh, wow. Before my 21st bdirhaty. Oh, my God. Things that I learned there have kind of propelled me through the past 20 years. The core values in the Marines honor, courage and commitment and integrity. Those things, especially now I'm really feeling them at my core and they define me in a big way. Mm hmm. How are you using honor, courage and cinmtmmoet right now? I really feel like, you know, I'm honoring my friends and family and others out there who have, you know, struggled with who they are through the years by being myself now coming out as a trans woman. It's funny because sometimes I think I'm sort of like one of those Bourne Identity movies where the gvnenmroet thguat me these values. Little did they know that one day I would use them to live onpley as a trans woamn. And, yeah, that's that's kind of beautiful. What was the coming out process like? Well, you know, after I left, the Marines had an epiphany a few years ago that, you know, life is really sroht. It's about living your life. That's who you are with ietrgntiy and, you know, being an example of that for sure, for your kids. And I have a daughter. So there was a huge shift in me when I felt that and I knew I had to come out and it wasn't even a question. I just knew I had to do it. It was a really magical meonmt, too, because now it became a challenge and it was, oh, oh, you think this is impossible ? Wait and see because, yeah, I am coming for you life and yeah. I'm going to slay this thing. Yeah. Oh my God. That's so beautiful. Wow. How has it felt to live out loud and proudly as as a trans woman? It's been amazing. It was hard going right up to that moment. And I, I didn't know how people would react. I knew people would be surprised. But I wasn't expecting to be surprised myself by the reactions because I just got a ton of support and love. Hmm. That's wonderful. A lot of people. Yeah. People I served in the Marines with. And then I also was in the Air ntioaanl Guard and people have been amazing. So last July, when Trump suddenly announced this trans ban in the military, where were you when that hpaeenpd and how did it feel to see that? I think I was at work, I think and I haerd the news had sort of a swirl of thoughts and feelings in the wake of that. I served for 16 years in the military, you know, and that's not a slmal thing. So, you know, I come from it. I come to it from that perspective and know everybody thinks of the phrase once a Marine, always a Marine. If you're a Marine, it's the. Because it's almost like an unsentimental fact. Yeah, it's just it is what it is, just like you are a Marine. A Marine. Yeah, that's that's just the way. It's just a fact. So, you know, the. The placement I have in my heart. For the mnaiers. Is right next to the place I have in my heart, where I feel in my core that I'm trans. Yeah, and there's sort of like two sides of the same coin because, you know, the courage and integrity I learned in the military are things I use every day. Hmm. And that have really given me the opportunity, I feel like to me to do this thing now. Did you interact with any people who vocally suoepprtd the ban? No, I really haven't done that. I've steeerd clear of that. So you are about to talk to someone who did, at least at one point, vocally sopurpt the trans ban. How are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good. You know, it's a little nerve wracking, I guess, because I don't really do that, like talk to people and about issues like this and sort of steer clear of that. And, you know, I do kind of take my example, just like being myself and and being in in the lives of my friends and family. That has some effect that I hope. Mm hmm. Well, do you do you feel ready to have this conversation? Yeah, I think so. OK. All right. Well, let's do. Great. Hi, madide. Hello, how are you, Maddie? Can you hear us at an OK level? Yep, you sound sort of reverby, but it's probably like a seearppnokhe or something. We are on speakerphone, but it's just for recording purposes. Are you OK with that? No, I have to back out. I'm sorry. OK. All right. Well, thank you so much. So to kind of kick things off, Maddie, can you talk to Tyler about your history and time in the Marines? Sure. Join the Marines and ninety seven. And I had a unique job in the Marines as a musician, but went to boot camp, combat training, everything Marines do. So, you know, in a silgne day, we could spend hruos on a really delicate peice of music and then go and, you know, frrieam training, gas chamber, you know, physical fitness. But it was a lot of hard work. And now, just so you can hear, Tyler, tell me about your eceenxipre in the Marines. Sure. I was 35, 31 motor vehicle operator. And so when we deployed, we did route clearance, we did steirucy, we did logistics. You know, a lot of it was just like prepping a lot of convoys, a lot of like, you know, wapenos, maintenance and training and, you know, probably a lot of the same things that you did. Gas caebmhr, too. What does that mean? That soudns terrifying. If you wanted to take out that. What what's that? Well, I mean, gas chamber training, you go and you're in this elenocsd space and they released tear gas and you have to do a series of things. And if you do them crorltcey, then and you get out of there, you'll be fine. You'll get to it. But if you can't oatrpee your gas mask correctly or you don't breathe, you know, as you should make you nrvuoes, then a few seconds after getting in there, you're crawling for the door. Yeah, that's that'll fuck you up. So, OK, this is great to know. So I also now wanted to bring up you both very bvlaery came out as identities, one of which was not and one of which now is not necessarily welcome in the military. Tyler, I want to start with you. You came out as gay. Yeah. Yeah, I did. I reeembmr when Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed. I was deployed and it was right then. Yeah , it was. And somebody ran up to me with a newspaper that had this igmae of a male Marine jumping on another male marine kissing him. Yeah. And the Hawaii hangar bay. I remember that . Yes. It was an inocic photo. Yeah. Then I tried to come out and my best friend at the time, he abandoned me. I mean, he stopped being my friend entirely. And this was in a combat ernnnioemvt. Well, and I just went into like a very deep depression and I didn't want to come out then when I came back out of deployment. I just couldn't I like wanted to come out and don't ask, don't tell was repealed, so I knew I would. Yeah, so and just so people know how that works. Don't ask, don't tell was a policy implemented by Clinton. Yeah, right. That was saying you're welcome to be gay in the military as long as you don't tell anyone. I think that's I think that's a little bit too generous that way too generous. It was like during, during when don't ask don't tell was was in pacle. People were getting kicked out quite often, like I remember even being in when it was don't ask, don't tell. I remember them like my sergeant coming out and just saying, like, if if if any of you guys get caught, you know, no, no. We're going to find you faggots like blah, blah, blah. Oh, fuck. Oh yeah. And he's like, even though it might be repealed here in the next couple of years, I just know that if we catch you, you know , being a fag before then, then you're out. And I remember like my my fists, like my pamls like sewat. And I was just like, oh my God, oh, my God. I mean, so this is a really iptrnomat thing we're hitting on right now, which is that like policy is affecting how people are treated. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So Mattey, you were serving in the time when Don't Ask, Don't Tell was law, right ? That's right. What was the kind of vibe under Don't Ask, Don't Tell? I did actually have very close friends in the Marines who are gay to either told me at the time or later, were they nervous? We didn't talk about it. Yeah, right. But that's the name of the policy. Yeah. Yeah. How have you been treated as a gay Marine, both in the Marines and and beyond? When when I did come out, obviously the first time in Afghanistan, it was like, yeah, it was bad. It was not good. That was when the losing a friend, lisong and losing a friend was not it was not ideal. Then then when I came out in Hawaii, when I got back, it was actually like one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. I yeah, I came out to my my like one of my best friends and he looked at me and it was just like the sweetest. They just like had this smile. And it is like to be like, well, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I'm gay. And he was just like like, why didn't you tell me? Like, I am I the first person? And I was like, yeah, he's like, well thank God. Like that was all. He was like, yeah, you'd be the first person. Yeah. And then the rest of my and then of course you know, they're Marines and I know that he knows about this. Like they asked the most inappropriate questions you could pssolbiy imagine, you know, like do you like to take it up. But yeah, blah blah blah blah blah, all that stuff. And I would anwesr and then like most thoroughly disgusting and descriptive ways that they would feel unoartlcomfbe. You're going to ask me that question. You're going to get the fucking answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. Yeah. But no, I mean overall it was very well received and I had I felt more love from my command for cnomig out than I did from saldy my own family. I love them, you know, but like that's really how I felt. I felt like they were much more accepting. So Matty, I know you didn't come out as trans when you were in the Marines, but once a Marine, always a Marine. So you came out as a Marine. So what was your coming out process after the Marines? I was in the Air National Guard for twelve years and it was even after that. And I came out, but I just sort of I didn't think I could ever come out. It didn't seem like anything I could even fathom happening. I just thought, you know, people would. Lose their minds, basically. And one skill I learned in the Marines is to suck it up. Nobody ever told me that explicitly, like there wasn't a drill instructor. I said, if you think you're transgender. Right. Right. He did call us ladies a lot. And you were like, OK, I'm into this. It's the nicest thing they ever said to me. Yeah. And so the reason we're on this call is that in in a since detleed Facebook posts that I actually haven't seen, Tyler wrote in support of the trans men and then got a lot of pushback. So. So, Tyler, why did you delete. Yeah, that's a good question. I felt honestly, I felt like this is going to be brutally honest. I'm like applying for jobs and I really didn't want this to be something that inhibited my ability to get a job. Sure. I basically said that I thought I thought it was ridiculous that the left was kind of arguing in favor of having trans people be able to serve when they're so ardently against the military industrial complex in the first place. And then later on, like, you know, people comtmened back on their, you know, like I was a bigot and stuff like that. And that's when I started getting into more intricate arguments in the comments, which were like, well, what about the Rand rorept? We all know the comment section is the greatest place to have nnuaecd conversations. Yeah, right. Really nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I guess my my thing was like I thought about when I came out in the Marines and when I was deployed and there was a point when I was so depressed that I wanted to kill myself. And I thought, what if someone was tnniiartisnog when they're in the military, you know? So I mean, even if they're not deployed like you're in the Marines to marry, like, you know how strfusesl the Marines is in general. So I thought, like, what would that have been like? Because agbulray, like coming out as trans, especially now, is much more challenging than coming out as gay, like. And so that was that was what I what why I was sort of in support of of I hate cillang it the man that just sounds like so I mean, like I mean but I feel like it is. Well, I yeah. I mean, I think. Matty, would you what would you call it. Do you call it the transmen. Yeah. I mean in my mind I think that's really what it is. OK, so, so to, to kind of sum this up, the, the kind of fleenig you had tlyor was. I'm against these tweets, but I am for this ban because of the research I'm reading. Yeah, yeah. And what were these sources for? You said it's the Rand, so it's Rand something report which kind of otenulid the budget. And then, you know, I just looked up like. bsaic information about, you know, how long it takes to transition and what what what hormone therapy does to to people. And so I toguhht men like maybe it would be better if trans people weren't able to serve because, I mean, am I even helped them out? Because that's going to be really chgnlaenlig for them. But also overall randieess of the military. You know, it comes to like a strong military. I think it's you know, it doesn't make the military more strong to ask people to hide what they are because, you know, that's an exhausting thing to do. And it's also sort of goes against what I consider the gaeertst valeus in the military, the integrity of the members. So, you know, I think it might actually make the military weaker to ask trans people to hide who they are and trans people. I mean, they they aren't monolithic. You know, some trans people don't up for any medical iritnvnteeon and some due to varying degrees. I mean, I gseus I just always thought I didn't think that that trans people didn't. I just kind of viewed them all as. Wanting to transition ? Yeah, I just I didn't I guess I just didn't really know that there were plopee in the trans community that maybe didn't. Yeah, I mean, transition mneas different things to different people. I think, unfortunately, you know, issues surrounding trans people are made out to be political issues. That's sort of how they're they're filtered down into what people hear about trans people. But I don't actually think it's a piacilotl issue. You know, I was talking about don't ask, don't tell earlier. And you were saying, like, the policy sounds better than it is because like, yes, in theory, don't ask, don't tell is like just stay closeted, but you can be gay. And in theory, the trans ban like you were expressing Tyler, is like, well, it doesn't make sense on paper in this way . That is presented to me. And I'm not blaming you for that. I'm saying, like you, you were rniadeg this report that prenseetd trans itteidny in a pretty mintiohloc way. Yeah, right. And I think the trans ban might have the same effect. Right. When when llaetisogin or when policy says, like, we're banning this gourp of people or we're literally silencing these group of people as don't ask, don't tell did, you're also laiendg people to kind of create biases. Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, just looking at the culture in the Marine Corps, it won't move unless it's sort of like pushed along by the leadership. Right. We started this conversation kind of just talking about the trans ban, but we've invoked don't ask, don't tell, don't ask, don't tell would not have allowed you, Tyler, to enlist in the Marines. And as we know, the trans ban would ban you, Maddie, from joining. So first, I want to ask Tyler, where would you be if you are not aweolld to eilnst in the Marines? Oh, that's a good qoiusten, because that is a good question. I, I could I can tell you I mean, I can tell you how good it's been for me. You know, maybe I wouldn't I wouldn't have free college. I wouldn't have lived in Hawaii. I wouldn't have traveled the wlrod. I wouldn't have some of the friends that I have. I wouldn't have the skill sets that I have of just being able to be resilient. Yeah, I mean, it would have really harmed, like, hurt my life for sure. Yeah, definitely. Matty, same question to you. Where would you be without the Marines? I'd definitely be in a different place. It's hard to iaingme because there is so formative for me. And, you know, I can tarce so much back to the Marines. Yeah. I mean, life would have been much duller, I think, for sure. And having the experience of serving the Marines is unlike anything else. So it's it's hard to even imagine. I don't know. I just want to say thanks, you're the first transgender manrie I've ever met in my life. Oh, awesome. Via phone. And it's really awesome to meet you. And I don't know, I guess I just appreciate you explaining. We'll tlkiang with me in the first place and then also, like, not, I don't know, being upset that I had questions and maybe, you know, dissenting ooinnpis on on the part of the policy that obviously isn't in place in the first place. And I also waentd to say, like, you're super brave for serving, especially, you know, years before I did, when it was probably a much more hostile place for anybody in the LGBTQ spectrum. So I guess that's it. And thanks. Yeah, thanks. It's so awesome to meet you and hear your story. And thank you so much for coming on here and and letting me share my story, too. And, you know, I can't imagine what you went through coming out while you're deplyoed and just kind of have you have the bravery to do that. So that's that's where I am right now. Wow. Thanks. You know. Yeah, I think it's amaznig. And yeah. Thanks for being open and discussing this stuff. I think it's definitely an open, open story. You know, we'll see where the story laeds. One thing I like to think about, you know you know, I transitions myself, but I may be in the driver's seat. But I think, you know, everybody around me is a passenger. So I think, you know, we're all in this sort of story together. Yeah. So I'm hopeful. I think it's exciting and and it's just great to to get to talk about this with you. Yeah. Well, that feels like a wonderful place to levae this. Thank you both so much for being on this call. Thank you. Thank you, Don. I guess we'll all see each other on the Internet. Oh, great. OK, bye, Matty. All right. If you'd like to be a guest on this show and take your own online conversation and move it offline, please visit w w w conversations with people who hate me dot com for more information. Conversations with people who hate me is a puotoicrdn of my presents. Vincent Kassian is the sound engineer and mexir. Christy Grassman is the exievtcue producer. The theme song is These Dark Times by Caged aianlms. The logo was digeensd by Rob woisln and this podcast was created, pedcuord and hosted by me, Dylan Meran. scipeal thanks to Adam Cecil, Emily mllier and our pbclisiut magen laosrn will be releasing episodes every other week. So I'll see you in two weeks with a brand new conversation. Until then, remember, there's a human on the other side of the screen. Make it through these dark times.

Open Cloze

And so that was why I was sort of in support of I hate calling you the trans man, that just sounds like so. Well, I yeah. Matty, would you what would you call it? Yeah. I mean, in my mind, I think that's really what it is. Hey, I'm _____ Marron, and welcome back to conversations with people who hate me, the show where I move negative online conversations from inboxes, comment sections and social media posts to phone calls. Now, sometimes I speak one on one with people who have said negative things about me on the ________. And other times I share this platform with people who have received their own _______ __________ in this episode. I'm __________ to people who didn't know each other before this call. Their relationship is through me. My first guest, Tyler _______, is my husband's cousin and the other _____, Matty ______, is the wife of my childhood babysitter. Why am I collecting them? Well, it comes down to one topic, the proposed ban of ___________ folks serving in the military in a since deleted Facebook post. Tyler, a veteran of the Marines, ________ expressed his support of the band. Maty is also a veteran of the Marines, and she recently came out as a trans woman first. I'll speak one on one with _____, then I'll speak one on one with _____, and after that, I'll _______ them to each other. So let's get started. Hi, Tyler. Hello, how are you? Good, I'm doing good. You are a veteran? Yes. And a Marine? Yes. OK, so what made you want to join the Marines? I, I mean, there, there's like a ________ of reasons why I wanted to join. I come from kind of like a poor family and I wanted to explore the world and get out of, you know, the small town of Middleton, _____. And I also was kind of like trying to come out of the closet at the same time. And so it was like this. I thought in my head, I thought, like, if I joined the Marine _____, you know, part of me was like, it'll turn me into a man like, quote unquote. And and then the other part of me was like, oh, I'll be the first Marine to _____ openly gay. Obviously wasn't true at the time. I just was unaware. But you were like. But it was not. Yeah, I was like, oh, just get that record . Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And it was it was a good choice. I mean ultimately I'm the first person, you know, in my immediate family to even get a degree. And so it ended up being very, very. Yeah, very good for me. What was it like being in the Marines? It's very intense. And like right in the beginning, bootcamp was really challenging. I definitely cried a few _____. Everybody cries of boot camp and they say they didn't. And but this is the truth. Exactly. And so, like, you know, like middle of the night, like no one's looking, you know, like you kind of just like, you know, you sob. Yeah. Like like deep, deep sobbing. So, yeah, it was it was I always when people ask me, I always say I was like very intense with some of the best and worst experiences of my life. And it taught me amazing lessons. I think a lot of times in the United States we do live in this very small bubble of like very safe ______ for the most part, but going to places like war torn nations that really I almost feel like everybody should have to go and see something like that because it is so _______ and it is so Eye-Opening. And it really changes your view on everything from like how you view your family to all of your friends, how you view objects. Like I just don't view objects the same anymore. Like none of that seems to ______ since I came back. And you mean like material? Yeah. Materialistic stuff. Yeah. And I'm in what's called inactive _______. OK, so if you know shit hits the fan, they're going to call back someone like me and people who have who's inactive right now. Exactly. And so what have you been doing in your inactive duty time? Well, the first thing I did when I got out, I took some college courses when I was in, I just I was in a combat battalion and we just could not do courses. I wanted to do school so that enough to do it. So when I got out, I ___________ went to a community college in Bellingham, Washington. Yeah. And so about, you know, into my second year of college, I started applying to schools and I got accepted into Cornell, which was across the country. And I once I got ice cream on my back. Right. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And I packed my bag and my whole car. My _________ up. Yeah. And drove cross-country. Yeah. That's where I'm at. OK, right now to bring this into a more _____ conversation, July of 2017, Trump announces the trans ban in the military. And your feelings about that were that tweet. I was __________ against the tweet. Like it's not necessary to say something like that. So I. I was not for that. Yeah. You know, is it, you know, a good thing to have transgenders in the military? Does it does it affect the overall readiness? OK, so in a since deleted Facebook post, you _________ support for the ban, not the tweet, but the ban. Why why did you write that post? I saw, like, outrage on the left, right. I'm like, are you fucking _______ me? Like, how dare you do something like that ? I was annoyed that the left was reacting like this when there's so when I felt like they were so opposed to the military industrial complex in general. A lot of my friends on the left are like just so mad at me that I could even think that maybe it would be a good idea to have a ban on transgenders and. And that was just my opinion, and I was like, well, I mean, they're not inclusive and they're not _________. Yes, that's not the point of the military's point, is to be a fighting force to kill you when people started _______ back on you for that post. How did you start to feel? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I didn't feel I wasn't I I mean, I wasn't upset, you know, but I was just kind of like. Like, lay off me, most of them weren't even ________ _______, and that's what's irritating. It was like people who had never even ___________ the military and have no idea what it's like to be under the pressure of combat. And then they're coming at me being like, we need to do this and this. And I'm just like, shut the fuck up. And where do you stand now on it? Are you pro the _____ ban? I'm honestly just still confused about it. Like, I, I don't want to be against it, but and I and I want to be for it because I want to I want everybody to feel, you know, a part of this country. I don't want them to feel left out. But it is really complicated because I do feel like there is a lot of ______ that come on board with that. Like I ______ up like, how long does it take to transition? What are like the what happens when someone does transition? I watch a few YouTube ______ and and so my thing is, if someone comes in and they're trans with the hope to __________ in the military, that that makes them inoperable for like six ______ to a year is what I read because of, like _______ _________. And then if they get the _______ on top of that, then you're getting hormone treatment, which, you know, _______ your _____. I mean, steroids are illegal and you can't take those. And a lot of that is because of the reactions that you have, not only like metabolically, but and steroids are illegal and they are illegal in the Marines, in the military in _______. And so that was my thing. Like, I think it's and then and then when they're I mean, yeah, I guess it have a lot of no questions. And so so but that's what an amazing place to start. Yeah. Like questions are are a great thing to have. So did you know any trans Marines. Not a single one that I ______ with. I never met a single one. You know, anybody in the Marines know. OK, so we can ______ that right now. Cool. Yeah. Look at you Marines. Yeah. Wow. Hello. Hi, Maddy. Hi, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? ______ good. Somebody in only as many details as you're ___________ sharing. Tell me about you. Well, I grew up in a small town in Massachusetts and a conservative ______. We went to church, a lot of Pentecostal, a _________. And I was this sort of solitary kid with long hair. I spent almost all my time either playing sax and guitar or skateboarding. Oh, and I use those as like my outlets for getting my frustration out a lot. And what are you _______ an outlet from? I feel like I didn't know myself at all. I couldn't see myself in the future. I couldn't see myself in the _______. I didn't really want to go into college right away. I was ________ like just an adventure into the unknown might be best for me because I am sort of an unknowable person. So. So I decided to join the Marines as a musician. Well, even though I knew almost nothing about the Marines and this was right out of high school. Yep. What was the introduction to the Marines like? All Marines have to go through a three _____ boot camp, combat ________. So it was a lot of hard work. Yeah, there's a ton of work, but it really was an adventure. I got to travel the country. I became a ______ very early. I was a sergeant. Oh, wow. Before my 21st ________. Oh, my God. Things that I learned there have kind of propelled me through the past 20 years. The core values in the Marines honor, courage and commitment and integrity. Those things, especially now I'm really feeling them at my core and they define me in a big way. Mm hmm. How are you using honor, courage and __________ right now? I really feel like, you know, I'm honoring my friends and family and others out there who have, you know, struggled with who they are through the years by being myself now coming out as a trans woman. It's funny because sometimes I think I'm sort of like one of those Bourne Identity movies where the __________ ______ me these values. Little did they know that one day I would use them to live ______ as a trans _____. And, yeah, that's that's kind of beautiful. What was the coming out process like? Well, you know, after I left, the Marines had an epiphany a few years ago that, you know, life is really _____. It's about living your life. That's who you are with _________ and, you know, being an example of that for sure, for your kids. And I have a daughter. So there was a huge shift in me when I felt that and I knew I had to come out and it wasn't even a question. I just knew I had to do it. It was a really magical ______, too, because now it became a challenge and it was, oh, oh, you think this is impossible ? Wait and see because, yeah, I am coming for you life and yeah. I'm going to slay this thing. Yeah. Oh my God. That's so beautiful. Wow. How has it felt to live out loud and proudly as as a trans woman? It's been amazing. It was hard going right up to that moment. And I, I didn't know how people would react. I knew people would be surprised. But I wasn't expecting to be surprised myself by the reactions because I just got a ton of support and love. Hmm. That's wonderful. A lot of people. Yeah. People I served in the Marines with. And then I also was in the Air ________ Guard and people have been amazing. So last July, when Trump suddenly announced this trans ban in the military, where were you when that ________ and how did it feel to see that? I think I was at work, I think and I _____ the news had sort of a swirl of thoughts and feelings in the wake of that. I served for 16 years in the military, you know, and that's not a _____ thing. So, you know, I come from it. I come to it from that perspective and know everybody thinks of the phrase once a Marine, always a Marine. If you're a Marine, it's the. Because it's almost like an unsentimental fact. Yeah, it's just it is what it is, just like you are a Marine. A Marine. Yeah, that's that's just the way. It's just a fact. So, you know, the. The placement I have in my heart. For the _______. Is right next to the place I have in my heart, where I feel in my core that I'm trans. Yeah, and there's sort of like two sides of the same coin because, you know, the courage and integrity I learned in the military are things I use every day. Hmm. And that have really given me the opportunity, I feel like to me to do this thing now. Did you interact with any people who vocally _________ the ban? No, I really haven't done that. I've _______ clear of that. So you are about to talk to someone who did, at least at one point, vocally _______ the trans ban. How are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good. You know, it's a little nerve wracking, I guess, because I don't really do that, like talk to people and about issues like this and sort of steer clear of that. And, you know, I do kind of take my example, just like being myself and and being in in the lives of my friends and family. That has some effect that I hope. Mm hmm. Well, do you do you feel ready to have this conversation? Yeah, I think so. OK. All right. Well, let's do. Great. Hi, ______. Hello, how are you, Maddie? Can you hear us at an OK level? Yep, you sound sort of reverby, but it's probably like a ____________ or something. We are on speakerphone, but it's just for recording purposes. Are you OK with that? No, I have to back out. I'm sorry. OK. All right. Well, thank you so much. So to kind of kick things off, Maddie, can you talk to Tyler about your history and time in the Marines? Sure. Join the Marines and ninety seven. And I had a unique job in the Marines as a musician, but went to boot camp, combat training, everything Marines do. So, you know, in a ______ day, we could spend _____ on a really delicate _____ of music and then go and, you know, _______ training, gas chamber, you know, physical fitness. But it was a lot of hard work. And now, just so you can hear, Tyler, tell me about your __________ in the Marines. Sure. I was 35, 31 motor vehicle operator. And so when we deployed, we did route clearance, we did ________, we did logistics. You know, a lot of it was just like prepping a lot of convoys, a lot of like, you know, _______, maintenance and training and, you know, probably a lot of the same things that you did. Gas _______, too. What does that mean? That ______ terrifying. If you wanted to take out that. What what's that? Well, I mean, gas chamber training, you go and you're in this ________ space and they released tear gas and you have to do a series of things. And if you do them _________, then and you get out of there, you'll be fine. You'll get to it. But if you can't _______ your gas mask correctly or you don't breathe, you know, as you should make you _______, then a few seconds after getting in there, you're crawling for the door. Yeah, that's that'll fuck you up. So, OK, this is great to know. So I also now wanted to bring up you both very _______ came out as identities, one of which was not and one of which now is not necessarily welcome in the military. Tyler, I want to start with you. You came out as gay. Yeah. Yeah, I did. I ________ when Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed. I was deployed and it was right then. Yeah , it was. And somebody ran up to me with a newspaper that had this _____ of a male Marine jumping on another male marine kissing him. Yeah. And the Hawaii hangar bay. I remember that . Yes. It was an ______ photo. Yeah. Then I tried to come out and my best friend at the time, he abandoned me. I mean, he stopped being my friend entirely. And this was in a combat ___________. Well, and I just went into like a very deep depression and I didn't want to come out then when I came back out of deployment. I just couldn't I like wanted to come out and don't ask, don't tell was repealed, so I knew I would. Yeah, so and just so people know how that works. Don't ask, don't tell was a policy implemented by Clinton. Yeah, right. That was saying you're welcome to be gay in the military as long as you don't tell anyone. I think that's I think that's a little bit too generous that way too generous. It was like during, during when don't ask don't tell was was in _____. People were getting kicked out quite often, like I remember even being in when it was don't ask, don't tell. I remember them like my sergeant coming out and just saying, like, if if if any of you guys get caught, you know, no, no. We're going to find you faggots like blah, blah, blah. Oh, fuck. Oh yeah. And he's like, even though it might be repealed here in the next couple of years, I just know that if we catch you, you know , being a fag before then, then you're out. And I remember like my my fists, like my _____ like _____. And I was just like, oh my God, oh, my God. I mean, so this is a really _________ thing we're hitting on right now, which is that like policy is affecting how people are treated. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So Mattey, you were serving in the time when Don't Ask, Don't Tell was law, right ? That's right. What was the kind of vibe under Don't Ask, Don't Tell? I did actually have very close friends in the Marines who are gay to either told me at the time or later, were they nervous? We didn't talk about it. Yeah, right. But that's the name of the policy. Yeah. Yeah. How have you been treated as a gay Marine, both in the Marines and and beyond? When when I did come out, obviously the first time in Afghanistan, it was like, yeah, it was bad. It was not good. That was when the losing a friend, ______ and losing a friend was not it was not ideal. Then then when I came out in Hawaii, when I got back, it was actually like one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. I yeah, I came out to my my like one of my best friends and he looked at me and it was just like the sweetest. They just like had this smile. And it is like to be like, well, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I'm gay. And he was just like like, why didn't you tell me? Like, I am I the first person? And I was like, yeah, he's like, well thank God. Like that was all. He was like, yeah, you'd be the first person. Yeah. And then the rest of my and then of course you know, they're Marines and I know that he knows about this. Like they asked the most inappropriate questions you could ________ imagine, you know, like do you like to take it up. But yeah, blah blah blah blah blah, all that stuff. And I would ______ and then like most thoroughly disgusting and descriptive ways that they would feel _____________. You're going to ask me that question. You're going to get the fucking answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. Yeah. But no, I mean overall it was very well received and I had I felt more love from my command for ______ out than I did from _____ my own family. I love them, you know, but like that's really how I felt. I felt like they were much more accepting. So Matty, I know you didn't come out as trans when you were in the Marines, but once a Marine, always a Marine. So you came out as a Marine. So what was your coming out process after the Marines? I was in the Air National Guard for twelve years and it was even after that. And I came out, but I just sort of I didn't think I could ever come out. It didn't seem like anything I could even fathom happening. I just thought, you know, people would. Lose their minds, basically. And one skill I learned in the Marines is to suck it up. Nobody ever told me that explicitly, like there wasn't a drill instructor. I said, if you think you're transgender. Right. Right. He did call us ladies a lot. And you were like, OK, I'm into this. It's the nicest thing they ever said to me. Yeah. And so the reason we're on this call is that in in a since _______ Facebook posts that I actually haven't seen, Tyler wrote in support of the trans men and then got a lot of pushback. So. So, Tyler, why did you delete. Yeah, that's a good question. I felt honestly, I felt like this is going to be brutally honest. I'm like applying for jobs and I really didn't want this to be something that inhibited my ability to get a job. Sure. I basically said that I thought I thought it was ridiculous that the left was kind of arguing in favor of having trans people be able to serve when they're so ardently against the military industrial complex in the first place. And then later on, like, you know, people _________ back on their, you know, like I was a bigot and stuff like that. And that's when I started getting into more intricate arguments in the comments, which were like, well, what about the Rand ______? We all know the comment section is the greatest place to have _______ conversations. Yeah, right. Really nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I guess my my thing was like I thought about when I came out in the Marines and when I was deployed and there was a point when I was so depressed that I wanted to kill myself. And I thought, what if someone was _____________ when they're in the military, you know? So I mean, even if they're not deployed like you're in the Marines to marry, like, you know how _________ the Marines is in general. So I thought, like, what would that have been like? Because ________, like coming out as trans, especially now, is much more challenging than coming out as gay, like. And so that was that was what I what why I was sort of in support of of I hate _______ it the man that just sounds like so I mean, like I mean but I feel like it is. Well, I yeah. I mean, I think. Matty, would you what would you call it. Do you call it the transmen. Yeah. I mean in my mind I think that's really what it is. OK, so, so to, to kind of sum this up, the, the kind of _______ you had _____ was. I'm against these tweets, but I am for this ban because of the research I'm reading. Yeah, yeah. And what were these sources for? You said it's the Rand, so it's Rand something report which kind of ________ the budget. And then, you know, I just looked up like. _____ information about, you know, how long it takes to transition and what what what hormone therapy does to to people. And so I _______ men like maybe it would be better if trans people weren't able to serve because, I mean, am I even helped them out? Because that's going to be really ___________ for them. But also overall _________ of the military. You know, it comes to like a strong military. I think it's you know, it doesn't make the military more strong to ask people to hide what they are because, you know, that's an exhausting thing to do. And it's also sort of goes against what I consider the ________ ______ in the military, the integrity of the members. So, you know, I think it might actually make the military weaker to ask trans people to hide who they are and trans people. I mean, they they aren't monolithic. You know, some trans people don't up for any medical ____________ and some due to varying degrees. I mean, I _____ I just always thought I didn't think that that trans people didn't. I just kind of viewed them all as. Wanting to transition ? Yeah, I just I didn't I guess I just didn't really know that there were ______ in the trans community that maybe didn't. Yeah, I mean, transition _____ different things to different people. I think, unfortunately, you know, issues surrounding trans people are made out to be political issues. That's sort of how they're they're filtered down into what people hear about trans people. But I don't actually think it's a _________ issue. You know, I was talking about don't ask, don't tell earlier. And you were saying, like, the policy sounds better than it is because like, yes, in theory, don't ask, don't tell is like just stay closeted, but you can be gay. And in theory, the trans ban like you were expressing Tyler, is like, well, it doesn't make sense on paper in this way . That is presented to me. And I'm not blaming you for that. I'm saying, like you, you were _______ this report that _________ trans ________ in a pretty __________ way. Yeah, right. And I think the trans ban might have the same effect. Right. When when ___________ or when policy says, like, we're banning this _____ of people or we're literally silencing these group of people as don't ask, don't tell did, you're also _______ people to kind of create biases. Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, just looking at the culture in the Marine Corps, it won't move unless it's sort of like pushed along by the leadership. Right. We started this conversation kind of just talking about the trans ban, but we've invoked don't ask, don't tell, don't ask, don't tell would not have allowed you, Tyler, to enlist in the Marines. And as we know, the trans ban would ban you, Maddie, from joining. So first, I want to ask Tyler, where would you be if you are not _______ to ______ in the Marines? Oh, that's a good ________, because that is a good question. I, I could I can tell you I mean, I can tell you how good it's been for me. You know, maybe I wouldn't I wouldn't have free college. I wouldn't have lived in Hawaii. I wouldn't have traveled the _____. I wouldn't have some of the friends that I have. I wouldn't have the skill sets that I have of just being able to be resilient. Yeah, I mean, it would have really harmed, like, hurt my life for sure. Yeah, definitely. Matty, same question to you. Where would you be without the Marines? I'd definitely be in a different place. It's hard to _______ because there is so formative for me. And, you know, I can _____ so much back to the Marines. Yeah. I mean, life would have been much duller, I think, for sure. And having the experience of serving the Marines is unlike anything else. So it's it's hard to even imagine. I don't know. I just want to say thanks, you're the first transgender ______ I've ever met in my life. Oh, awesome. Via phone. And it's really awesome to meet you. And I don't know, I guess I just appreciate you explaining. We'll _______ with me in the first place and then also, like, not, I don't know, being upset that I had questions and maybe, you know, dissenting ________ on on the part of the policy that obviously isn't in place in the first place. And I also ______ to say, like, you're super brave for serving, especially, you know, years before I did, when it was probably a much more hostile place for anybody in the LGBTQ spectrum. So I guess that's it. And thanks. Yeah, thanks. It's so awesome to meet you and hear your story. And thank you so much for coming on here and and letting me share my story, too. And, you know, I can't imagine what you went through coming out while you're ________ and just kind of have you have the bravery to do that. So that's that's where I am right now. Wow. Thanks. You know. Yeah, I think it's _______. And yeah. Thanks for being open and discussing this stuff. I think it's definitely an open, open story. You know, we'll see where the story _____. One thing I like to think about, you know you know, I transitions myself, but I may be in the driver's seat. But I think, you know, everybody around me is a passenger. So I think, you know, we're all in this sort of story together. Yeah. So I'm hopeful. I think it's exciting and and it's just great to to get to talk about this with you. Yeah. Well, that feels like a wonderful place to _____ this. Thank you both so much for being on this call. Thank you. Thank you, Don. I guess we'll all see each other on the Internet. Oh, great. OK, bye, Matty. All right. If you'd like to be a guest on this show and take your own online conversation and move it offline, please visit w w w conversations with people who hate me dot com for more information. Conversations with people who hate me is a __________ of my presents. Vincent Kassian is the sound engineer and _____. Christy Grassman is the _________ producer. The theme song is These Dark Times by Caged _______. The logo was ________ by Rob ______ and this podcast was created, ________ and hosted by me, Dylan Meran. _______ thanks to Adam Cecil, Emily ______ and our _________ _____ ______ will be releasing episodes every other week. So I'll see you in two weeks with a brand new conversation. Until then, remember, there's a human on the other side of the screen. Make it through these dark times.

Solution

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Original Text

And so that was why I was sort of in support of I hate calling you the trans man, that just sounds like so. Well, I yeah. Matty, would you what would you call it? Yeah. I mean, in my mind, I think that's really what it is. Hey, I'm Dylan Marron, and welcome back to conversations with people who hate me, the show where I move negative online conversations from inboxes, comment sections and social media posts to phone calls. Now, sometimes I speak one on one with people who have said negative things about me on the Internet. And other times I share this platform with people who have received their own digital negativity in this episode. I'm connecting to people who didn't know each other before this call. Their relationship is through me. My first guest, Tyler Gilmore, is my husband's cousin and the other guest, Matty Macara, is the wife of my childhood babysitter. Why am I collecting them? Well, it comes down to one topic, the proposed ban of transgender folks serving in the military in a since deleted Facebook post. Tyler, a veteran of the Marines, publicly expressed his support of the band. Maty is also a veteran of the Marines, and she recently came out as a trans woman first. I'll speak one on one with Tyler, then I'll speak one on one with Matty, and after that, I'll connect them to each other. So let's get started. Hi, Tyler. Hello, how are you? Good, I'm doing good. You are a veteran? Yes. And a Marine? Yes. OK, so what made you want to join the Marines? I, I mean, there, there's like a plethora of reasons why I wanted to join. I come from kind of like a poor family and I wanted to explore the world and get out of, you know, the small town of Middleton, Idaho. And I also was kind of like trying to come out of the closet at the same time. And so it was like this. I thought in my head, I thought, like, if I joined the Marine Corps, you know, part of me was like, it'll turn me into a man like, quote unquote. And and then the other part of me was like, oh, I'll be the first Marine to serve openly gay. Obviously wasn't true at the time. I just was unaware. But you were like. But it was not. Yeah, I was like, oh, just get that record . Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And it was it was a good choice. I mean ultimately I'm the first person, you know, in my immediate family to even get a degree. And so it ended up being very, very. Yeah, very good for me. What was it like being in the Marines? It's very intense. And like right in the beginning, bootcamp was really challenging. I definitely cried a few times. Everybody cries of boot camp and they say they didn't. And but this is the truth. Exactly. And so, like, you know, like middle of the night, like no one's looking, you know, like you kind of just like, you know, you sob. Yeah. Like like deep, deep sobbing. So, yeah, it was it was I always when people ask me, I always say I was like very intense with some of the best and worst experiences of my life. And it taught me amazing lessons. I think a lot of times in the United States we do live in this very small bubble of like very safe bubble for the most part, but going to places like war torn nations that really I almost feel like everybody should have to go and see something like that because it is so intense and it is so Eye-Opening. And it really changes your view on everything from like how you view your family to all of your friends, how you view objects. Like I just don't view objects the same anymore. Like none of that seems to matter since I came back. And you mean like material? Yeah. Materialistic stuff. Yeah. And I'm in what's called inactive service. OK, so if you know shit hits the fan, they're going to call back someone like me and people who have who's inactive right now. Exactly. And so what have you been doing in your inactive duty time? Well, the first thing I did when I got out, I took some college courses when I was in, I just I was in a combat battalion and we just could not do courses. I wanted to do school so that enough to do it. So when I got out, I immediately went to a community college in Bellingham, Washington. Yeah. And so about, you know, into my second year of college, I started applying to schools and I got accepted into Cornell, which was across the country. And I once I got ice cream on my back. Right. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And I packed my bag and my whole car. My apartment up. Yeah. And drove cross-country. Yeah. That's where I'm at. OK, right now to bring this into a more macro conversation, July of 2017, Trump announces the trans ban in the military. And your feelings about that were that tweet. I was absolutely against the tweet. Like it's not necessary to say something like that. So I. I was not for that. Yeah. You know, is it, you know, a good thing to have transgenders in the military? Does it does it affect the overall readiness? OK, so in a since deleted Facebook post, you expressed support for the ban, not the tweet, but the ban. Why why did you write that post? I saw, like, outrage on the left, right. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, how dare you do something like that ? I was annoyed that the left was reacting like this when there's so when I felt like they were so opposed to the military industrial complex in general. A lot of my friends on the left are like just so mad at me that I could even think that maybe it would be a good idea to have a ban on transgenders and. And that was just my opinion, and I was like, well, I mean, they're not inclusive and they're not equitable. Yes, that's not the point of the military's point, is to be a fighting force to kill you when people started pushing back on you for that post. How did you start to feel? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I didn't feel I wasn't I I mean, I wasn't upset, you know, but I was just kind of like. Like, lay off me, most of them weren't even military members, and that's what's irritating. It was like people who had never even experienced the military and have no idea what it's like to be under the pressure of combat. And then they're coming at me being like, we need to do this and this. And I'm just like, shut the fuck up. And where do you stand now on it? Are you pro the trans ban? I'm honestly just still confused about it. Like, I, I don't want to be against it, but and I and I want to be for it because I want to I want everybody to feel, you know, a part of this country. I don't want them to feel left out. But it is really complicated because I do feel like there is a lot of issues that come on board with that. Like I looked up like, how long does it take to transition? What are like the what happens when someone does transition? I watch a few YouTube videos and and so my thing is, if someone comes in and they're trans with the hope to transition in the military, that that makes them inoperable for like six months to a year is what I read because of, like hormone treatment. And then if they get the surgery on top of that, then you're getting hormone treatment, which, you know, affects your brain. I mean, steroids are illegal and you can't take those. And a lot of that is because of the reactions that you have, not only like metabolically, but and steroids are illegal and they are illegal in the Marines, in the military in general. And so that was my thing. Like, I think it's and then and then when they're I mean, yeah, I guess it have a lot of no questions. And so so but that's what an amazing place to start. Yeah. Like questions are are a great thing to have. So did you know any trans Marines. Not a single one that I served with. I never met a single one. You know, anybody in the Marines know. OK, so we can change that right now. Cool. Yeah. Look at you Marines. Yeah. Wow. Hello. Hi, Maddy. Hi, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Pretty good. Somebody in only as many details as you're comfortable sharing. Tell me about you. Well, I grew up in a small town in Massachusetts and a conservative family. We went to church, a lot of Pentecostal, a Christian. And I was this sort of solitary kid with long hair. I spent almost all my time either playing sax and guitar or skateboarding. Oh, and I use those as like my outlets for getting my frustration out a lot. And what are you seeking an outlet from? I feel like I didn't know myself at all. I couldn't see myself in the future. I couldn't see myself in the present. I didn't really want to go into college right away. I was thinking like just an adventure into the unknown might be best for me because I am sort of an unknowable person. So. So I decided to join the Marines as a musician. Well, even though I knew almost nothing about the Marines and this was right out of high school. Yep. What was the introduction to the Marines like? All Marines have to go through a three month boot camp, combat training. So it was a lot of hard work. Yeah, there's a ton of work, but it really was an adventure. I got to travel the country. I became a leader very early. I was a sergeant. Oh, wow. Before my 21st birthday. Oh, my God. Things that I learned there have kind of propelled me through the past 20 years. The core values in the Marines honor, courage and commitment and integrity. Those things, especially now I'm really feeling them at my core and they define me in a big way. Mm hmm. How are you using honor, courage and commitment right now? I really feel like, you know, I'm honoring my friends and family and others out there who have, you know, struggled with who they are through the years by being myself now coming out as a trans woman. It's funny because sometimes I think I'm sort of like one of those Bourne Identity movies where the government taught me these values. Little did they know that one day I would use them to live openly as a trans woman. And, yeah, that's that's kind of beautiful. What was the coming out process like? Well, you know, after I left, the Marines had an epiphany a few years ago that, you know, life is really short. It's about living your life. That's who you are with integrity and, you know, being an example of that for sure, for your kids. And I have a daughter. So there was a huge shift in me when I felt that and I knew I had to come out and it wasn't even a question. I just knew I had to do it. It was a really magical moment, too, because now it became a challenge and it was, oh, oh, you think this is impossible ? Wait and see because, yeah, I am coming for you life and yeah. I'm going to slay this thing. Yeah. Oh my God. That's so beautiful. Wow. How has it felt to live out loud and proudly as as a trans woman? It's been amazing. It was hard going right up to that moment. And I, I didn't know how people would react. I knew people would be surprised. But I wasn't expecting to be surprised myself by the reactions because I just got a ton of support and love. Hmm. That's wonderful. A lot of people. Yeah. People I served in the Marines with. And then I also was in the Air National Guard and people have been amazing. So last July, when Trump suddenly announced this trans ban in the military, where were you when that happened and how did it feel to see that? I think I was at work, I think and I heard the news had sort of a swirl of thoughts and feelings in the wake of that. I served for 16 years in the military, you know, and that's not a small thing. So, you know, I come from it. I come to it from that perspective and know everybody thinks of the phrase once a Marine, always a Marine. If you're a Marine, it's the. Because it's almost like an unsentimental fact. Yeah, it's just it is what it is, just like you are a Marine. A Marine. Yeah, that's that's just the way. It's just a fact. So, you know, the. The placement I have in my heart. For the Marines. Is right next to the place I have in my heart, where I feel in my core that I'm trans. Yeah, and there's sort of like two sides of the same coin because, you know, the courage and integrity I learned in the military are things I use every day. Hmm. And that have really given me the opportunity, I feel like to me to do this thing now. Did you interact with any people who vocally supported the ban? No, I really haven't done that. I've steered clear of that. So you are about to talk to someone who did, at least at one point, vocally support the trans ban. How are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good. You know, it's a little nerve wracking, I guess, because I don't really do that, like talk to people and about issues like this and sort of steer clear of that. And, you know, I do kind of take my example, just like being myself and and being in in the lives of my friends and family. That has some effect that I hope. Mm hmm. Well, do you do you feel ready to have this conversation? Yeah, I think so. OK. All right. Well, let's do. Great. Hi, Maddie. Hello, how are you, Maddie? Can you hear us at an OK level? Yep, you sound sort of reverby, but it's probably like a speakerphone or something. We are on speakerphone, but it's just for recording purposes. Are you OK with that? No, I have to back out. I'm sorry. OK. All right. Well, thank you so much. So to kind of kick things off, Maddie, can you talk to Tyler about your history and time in the Marines? Sure. Join the Marines and ninety seven. And I had a unique job in the Marines as a musician, but went to boot camp, combat training, everything Marines do. So, you know, in a single day, we could spend hours on a really delicate piece of music and then go and, you know, firearm training, gas chamber, you know, physical fitness. But it was a lot of hard work. And now, just so you can hear, Tyler, tell me about your experience in the Marines. Sure. I was 35, 31 motor vehicle operator. And so when we deployed, we did route clearance, we did security, we did logistics. You know, a lot of it was just like prepping a lot of convoys, a lot of like, you know, weapons, maintenance and training and, you know, probably a lot of the same things that you did. Gas chamber, too. What does that mean? That sounds terrifying. If you wanted to take out that. What what's that? Well, I mean, gas chamber training, you go and you're in this enclosed space and they released tear gas and you have to do a series of things. And if you do them correctly, then and you get out of there, you'll be fine. You'll get to it. But if you can't operate your gas mask correctly or you don't breathe, you know, as you should make you nervous, then a few seconds after getting in there, you're crawling for the door. Yeah, that's that'll fuck you up. So, OK, this is great to know. So I also now wanted to bring up you both very bravely came out as identities, one of which was not and one of which now is not necessarily welcome in the military. Tyler, I want to start with you. You came out as gay. Yeah. Yeah, I did. I remember when Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed. I was deployed and it was right then. Yeah , it was. And somebody ran up to me with a newspaper that had this image of a male Marine jumping on another male marine kissing him. Yeah. And the Hawaii hangar bay. I remember that . Yes. It was an iconic photo. Yeah. Then I tried to come out and my best friend at the time, he abandoned me. I mean, he stopped being my friend entirely. And this was in a combat environment. Well, and I just went into like a very deep depression and I didn't want to come out then when I came back out of deployment. I just couldn't I like wanted to come out and don't ask, don't tell was repealed, so I knew I would. Yeah, so and just so people know how that works. Don't ask, don't tell was a policy implemented by Clinton. Yeah, right. That was saying you're welcome to be gay in the military as long as you don't tell anyone. I think that's I think that's a little bit too generous that way too generous. It was like during, during when don't ask don't tell was was in place. People were getting kicked out quite often, like I remember even being in when it was don't ask, don't tell. I remember them like my sergeant coming out and just saying, like, if if if any of you guys get caught, you know, no, no. We're going to find you faggots like blah, blah, blah. Oh, fuck. Oh yeah. And he's like, even though it might be repealed here in the next couple of years, I just know that if we catch you, you know , being a fag before then, then you're out. And I remember like my my fists, like my palms like sweat. And I was just like, oh my God, oh, my God. I mean, so this is a really important thing we're hitting on right now, which is that like policy is affecting how people are treated. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So Mattey, you were serving in the time when Don't Ask, Don't Tell was law, right ? That's right. What was the kind of vibe under Don't Ask, Don't Tell? I did actually have very close friends in the Marines who are gay to either told me at the time or later, were they nervous? We didn't talk about it. Yeah, right. But that's the name of the policy. Yeah. Yeah. How have you been treated as a gay Marine, both in the Marines and and beyond? When when I did come out, obviously the first time in Afghanistan, it was like, yeah, it was bad. It was not good. That was when the losing a friend, losing and losing a friend was not it was not ideal. Then then when I came out in Hawaii, when I got back, it was actually like one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. I yeah, I came out to my my like one of my best friends and he looked at me and it was just like the sweetest. They just like had this smile. And it is like to be like, well, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I'm gay. And he was just like like, why didn't you tell me? Like, I am I the first person? And I was like, yeah, he's like, well thank God. Like that was all. He was like, yeah, you'd be the first person. Yeah. And then the rest of my and then of course you know, they're Marines and I know that he knows about this. Like they asked the most inappropriate questions you could possibly imagine, you know, like do you like to take it up. But yeah, blah blah blah blah blah, all that stuff. And I would answer and then like most thoroughly disgusting and descriptive ways that they would feel uncomfortable. You're going to ask me that question. You're going to get the fucking answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. Yeah. But no, I mean overall it was very well received and I had I felt more love from my command for coming out than I did from sadly my own family. I love them, you know, but like that's really how I felt. I felt like they were much more accepting. So Matty, I know you didn't come out as trans when you were in the Marines, but once a Marine, always a Marine. So you came out as a Marine. So what was your coming out process after the Marines? I was in the Air National Guard for twelve years and it was even after that. And I came out, but I just sort of I didn't think I could ever come out. It didn't seem like anything I could even fathom happening. I just thought, you know, people would. Lose their minds, basically. And one skill I learned in the Marines is to suck it up. Nobody ever told me that explicitly, like there wasn't a drill instructor. I said, if you think you're transgender. Right. Right. He did call us ladies a lot. And you were like, OK, I'm into this. It's the nicest thing they ever said to me. Yeah. And so the reason we're on this call is that in in a since deleted Facebook posts that I actually haven't seen, Tyler wrote in support of the trans men and then got a lot of pushback. So. So, Tyler, why did you delete. Yeah, that's a good question. I felt honestly, I felt like this is going to be brutally honest. I'm like applying for jobs and I really didn't want this to be something that inhibited my ability to get a job. Sure. I basically said that I thought I thought it was ridiculous that the left was kind of arguing in favor of having trans people be able to serve when they're so ardently against the military industrial complex in the first place. And then later on, like, you know, people commented back on their, you know, like I was a bigot and stuff like that. And that's when I started getting into more intricate arguments in the comments, which were like, well, what about the Rand report? We all know the comment section is the greatest place to have nuanced conversations. Yeah, right. Really nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I guess my my thing was like I thought about when I came out in the Marines and when I was deployed and there was a point when I was so depressed that I wanted to kill myself. And I thought, what if someone was transitioning when they're in the military, you know? So I mean, even if they're not deployed like you're in the Marines to marry, like, you know how stressful the Marines is in general. So I thought, like, what would that have been like? Because arguably, like coming out as trans, especially now, is much more challenging than coming out as gay, like. And so that was that was what I what why I was sort of in support of of I hate calling it the man that just sounds like so I mean, like I mean but I feel like it is. Well, I yeah. I mean, I think. Matty, would you what would you call it. Do you call it the transmen. Yeah. I mean in my mind I think that's really what it is. OK, so, so to, to kind of sum this up, the, the kind of feeling you had Tylor was. I'm against these tweets, but I am for this ban because of the research I'm reading. Yeah, yeah. And what were these sources for? You said it's the Rand, so it's Rand something report which kind of outlined the budget. And then, you know, I just looked up like. Basic information about, you know, how long it takes to transition and what what what hormone therapy does to to people. And so I thought men like maybe it would be better if trans people weren't able to serve because, I mean, am I even helped them out? Because that's going to be really challenging for them. But also overall readiness of the military. You know, it comes to like a strong military. I think it's you know, it doesn't make the military more strong to ask people to hide what they are because, you know, that's an exhausting thing to do. And it's also sort of goes against what I consider the greatest values in the military, the integrity of the members. So, you know, I think it might actually make the military weaker to ask trans people to hide who they are and trans people. I mean, they they aren't monolithic. You know, some trans people don't up for any medical intervention and some due to varying degrees. I mean, I guess I just always thought I didn't think that that trans people didn't. I just kind of viewed them all as. Wanting to transition ? Yeah, I just I didn't I guess I just didn't really know that there were people in the trans community that maybe didn't. Yeah, I mean, transition means different things to different people. I think, unfortunately, you know, issues surrounding trans people are made out to be political issues. That's sort of how they're they're filtered down into what people hear about trans people. But I don't actually think it's a political issue. You know, I was talking about don't ask, don't tell earlier. And you were saying, like, the policy sounds better than it is because like, yes, in theory, don't ask, don't tell is like just stay closeted, but you can be gay. And in theory, the trans ban like you were expressing Tyler, is like, well, it doesn't make sense on paper in this way . That is presented to me. And I'm not blaming you for that. I'm saying, like you, you were reading this report that presented trans identity in a pretty monolithic way. Yeah, right. And I think the trans ban might have the same effect. Right. When when legislation or when policy says, like, we're banning this group of people or we're literally silencing these group of people as don't ask, don't tell did, you're also leading people to kind of create biases. Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, just looking at the culture in the Marine Corps, it won't move unless it's sort of like pushed along by the leadership. Right. We started this conversation kind of just talking about the trans ban, but we've invoked don't ask, don't tell, don't ask, don't tell would not have allowed you, Tyler, to enlist in the Marines. And as we know, the trans ban would ban you, Maddie, from joining. So first, I want to ask Tyler, where would you be if you are not allowed to enlist in the Marines? Oh, that's a good question, because that is a good question. I, I could I can tell you I mean, I can tell you how good it's been for me. You know, maybe I wouldn't I wouldn't have free college. I wouldn't have lived in Hawaii. I wouldn't have traveled the world. I wouldn't have some of the friends that I have. I wouldn't have the skill sets that I have of just being able to be resilient. Yeah, I mean, it would have really harmed, like, hurt my life for sure. Yeah, definitely. Matty, same question to you. Where would you be without the Marines? I'd definitely be in a different place. It's hard to imagine because there is so formative for me. And, you know, I can trace so much back to the Marines. Yeah. I mean, life would have been much duller, I think, for sure. And having the experience of serving the Marines is unlike anything else. So it's it's hard to even imagine. I don't know. I just want to say thanks, you're the first transgender Marine I've ever met in my life. Oh, awesome. Via phone. And it's really awesome to meet you. And I don't know, I guess I just appreciate you explaining. We'll talking with me in the first place and then also, like, not, I don't know, being upset that I had questions and maybe, you know, dissenting opinions on on the part of the policy that obviously isn't in place in the first place. And I also wanted to say, like, you're super brave for serving, especially, you know, years before I did, when it was probably a much more hostile place for anybody in the LGBTQ spectrum. So I guess that's it. And thanks. Yeah, thanks. It's so awesome to meet you and hear your story. And thank you so much for coming on here and and letting me share my story, too. And, you know, I can't imagine what you went through coming out while you're deployed and just kind of have you have the bravery to do that. So that's that's where I am right now. Wow. Thanks. You know. Yeah, I think it's amazing. And yeah. Thanks for being open and discussing this stuff. I think it's definitely an open, open story. You know, we'll see where the story leads. One thing I like to think about, you know you know, I transitions myself, but I may be in the driver's seat. But I think, you know, everybody around me is a passenger. So I think, you know, we're all in this sort of story together. Yeah. So I'm hopeful. I think it's exciting and and it's just great to to get to talk about this with you. Yeah. Well, that feels like a wonderful place to leave this. Thank you both so much for being on this call. Thank you. Thank you, Don. I guess we'll all see each other on the Internet. Oh, great. OK, bye, Matty. All right. If you'd like to be a guest on this show and take your own online conversation and move it offline, please visit w w w conversations with people who hate me dot com for more information. Conversations with people who hate me is a production of my presents. Vincent Kassian is the sound engineer and mixer. Christy Grassman is the executive producer. The theme song is These Dark Times by Caged Animals. The logo was designed by Rob Wilson and this podcast was created, produced and hosted by me, Dylan Meran. Special thanks to Adam Cecil, Emily Miller and our publicist Megan Larson will be releasing episodes every other week. So I'll see you in two weeks with a brand new conversation. Until then, remember, there's a human on the other side of the screen. Make it through these dark times.

Frequently Occurring Word Combinations

ngrams of length 2

collocation frequency
trans people 8
trans ban 6
deleted facebook 3
trans woman 3
hate calling 2
small town 2
view objects 2
military industrial 2
industrial complex 2
marines yeah 2
pretty good 2
hard work 2
mm hmm 2
air national 2
national guard 2
male marine 2
good question 2
dark times 2

ngrams of length 3

collocation frequency
military industrial complex 2
air national guard 2

Important Words

  1. abandoned
  2. ability
  3. absolutely
  4. accepted
  5. accepting
  6. adam
  7. adventure
  8. affect
  9. affecting
  10. affects
  11. afghanistan
  12. air
  13. allowed
  14. amazing
  15. animals
  16. announced
  17. announces
  18. annoyed
  19. answer
  20. anymore
  21. apartment
  22. applying
  23. ardently
  24. arguably
  25. arguing
  26. arguments
  27. asked
  28. awesome
  29. babysitter
  30. bad
  31. bag
  32. ban
  33. band
  34. banning
  35. basic
  36. basically
  37. battalion
  38. bay
  39. beautiful
  40. beginning
  41. bellingham
  42. biases
  43. big
  44. bigot
  45. birthday
  46. bit
  47. blah
  48. blaming
  49. board
  50. boot
  51. bootcamp
  52. bourne
  53. brain
  54. brand
  55. brave
  56. bravely
  57. bravery
  58. breathe
  59. bring
  60. brutally
  61. bubble
  62. budget
  63. bye
  64. caged
  65. call
  66. called
  67. calling
  68. calls
  69. camp
  70. car
  71. catch
  72. caught
  73. cecil
  74. challenge
  75. challenging
  76. chamber
  77. change
  78. childhood
  79. choice
  80. christian
  81. christy
  82. church
  83. clear
  84. clearance
  85. clinton
  86. close
  87. closet
  88. closeted
  89. coin
  90. collecting
  91. college
  92. combat
  93. comfortable
  94. coming
  95. command
  96. comment
  97. commented
  98. comments
  99. commitment
  100. community
  101. complex
  102. complicated
  103. confused
  104. connect
  105. connecting
  106. conservative
  107. conversation
  108. conversations
  109. convoys
  110. cool
  111. core
  112. cornell
  113. corps
  114. correctly
  115. country
  116. couple
  117. courage
  118. courses
  119. cousin
  120. crawling
  121. cream
  122. create
  123. created
  124. cried
  125. cries
  126. culture
  127. dark
  128. daughter
  129. day
  130. decided
  131. deep
  132. define
  133. degree
  134. degrees
  135. delete
  136. deleted
  137. delicate
  138. deployed
  139. deployment
  140. depressed
  141. depression
  142. descriptive
  143. designed
  144. details
  145. digital
  146. discussing
  147. disgusting
  148. dissenting
  149. don
  150. door
  151. dot
  152. drill
  153. drove
  154. due
  155. duller
  156. duty
  157. dylan
  158. earlier
  159. early
  160. effect
  161. emily
  162. enclosed
  163. ended
  164. engineer
  165. enlist
  166. environment
  167. epiphany
  168. episode
  169. episodes
  170. equitable
  171. exciting
  172. executive
  173. exhausting
  174. expecting
  175. experience
  176. experienced
  177. experiences
  178. explaining
  179. explicitly
  180. explore
  181. expressed
  182. expressing
  183. facebook
  184. fact
  185. fag
  186. faggots
  187. family
  188. fan
  189. fathom
  190. favor
  191. feel
  192. feeling
  193. feelings
  194. feels
  195. felt
  196. fighting
  197. filtered
  198. find
  199. fine
  200. firearm
  201. fists
  202. fitness
  203. folks
  204. force
  205. formative
  206. free
  207. friend
  208. friends
  209. frustration
  210. fuck
  211. fucking
  212. funny
  213. future
  214. gas
  215. gay
  216. general
  217. generous
  218. gilmore
  219. god
  220. good
  221. government
  222. grassman
  223. great
  224. greatest
  225. grew
  226. group
  227. guard
  228. guess
  229. guest
  230. guitar
  231. guys
  232. hair
  233. hangar
  234. happened
  235. happening
  236. hard
  237. harmed
  238. hate
  239. hawaii
  240. head
  241. hear
  242. heard
  243. heart
  244. helped
  245. hey
  246. hide
  247. high
  248. history
  249. hits
  250. hitting
  251. hmm
  252. honest
  253. honestly
  254. honor
  255. honoring
  256. hope
  257. hopeful
  258. hormone
  259. hosted
  260. hostile
  261. hours
  262. huge
  263. human
  264. hurt
  265. ice
  266. iconic
  267. idaho
  268. idea
  269. ideal
  270. identities
  271. identity
  272. illegal
  273. image
  274. imagine
  275. immediately
  276. implemented
  277. important
  278. impossible
  279. inactive
  280. inappropriate
  281. inboxes
  282. inclusive
  283. industrial
  284. information
  285. inhibited
  286. inoperable
  287. instructor
  288. integrity
  289. intense
  290. interact
  291. internet
  292. intervention
  293. intricate
  294. introduction
  295. invoked
  296. irritating
  297. issue
  298. issues
  299. job
  300. jobs
  301. join
  302. joined
  303. joining
  304. july
  305. jumping
  306. kassian
  307. kick
  308. kicked
  309. kid
  310. kidding
  311. kids
  312. kill
  313. kind
  314. kissing
  315. knew
  316. ladies
  317. larson
  318. law
  319. lay
  320. leader
  321. leadership
  322. leading
  323. leads
  324. learned
  325. leave
  326. left
  327. legislation
  328. lessons
  329. letting
  330. level
  331. lgbtq
  332. life
  333. literally
  334. live
  335. lived
  336. lives
  337. living
  338. logistics
  339. logo
  340. long
  341. looked
  342. lose
  343. losing
  344. lot
  345. loud
  346. love
  347. macara
  348. macro
  349. mad
  350. maddie
  351. maddy
  352. magical
  353. maintenance
  354. male
  355. man
  356. marine
  357. marines
  358. marron
  359. marry
  360. mask
  361. massachusetts
  362. material
  363. materialistic
  364. matter
  365. mattey
  366. matty
  367. maty
  368. means
  369. media
  370. medical
  371. meet
  372. megan
  373. members
  374. men
  375. meran
  376. met
  377. metabolically
  378. middle
  379. middleton
  380. military
  381. miller
  382. mind
  383. minds
  384. mixer
  385. mm
  386. moment
  387. monolithic
  388. month
  389. months
  390. motor
  391. move
  392. movies
  393. music
  394. musician
  395. national
  396. nations
  397. necessarily
  398. negative
  399. negativity
  400. nerve
  401. nervous
  402. news
  403. newspaper
  404. nice
  405. nicest
  406. night
  407. nuanced
  408. objects
  409. offline
  410. online
  411. open
  412. openly
  413. operate
  414. operator
  415. opinion
  416. opinions
  417. opportunity
  418. opposed
  419. outlet
  420. outlets
  421. outlined
  422. outrage
  423. packed
  424. palms
  425. paper
  426. part
  427. passenger
  428. pentecostal
  429. people
  430. person
  431. perspective
  432. phone
  433. photo
  434. phrase
  435. physical
  436. piece
  437. place
  438. placement
  439. places
  440. platform
  441. playing
  442. plethora
  443. podcast
  444. point
  445. policy
  446. political
  447. poor
  448. possibly
  449. post
  450. posts
  451. prepping
  452. present
  453. presented
  454. presents
  455. pressure
  456. pretty
  457. pro
  458. process
  459. produced
  460. producer
  461. production
  462. propelled
  463. proposed
  464. proudly
  465. publicist
  466. publicly
  467. purposes
  468. pushback
  469. pushed
  470. pushing
  471. question
  472. questions
  473. quote
  474. ran
  475. rand
  476. react
  477. reacting
  478. reactions
  479. read
  480. readiness
  481. reading
  482. ready
  483. reason
  484. reasons
  485. received
  486. record
  487. recording
  488. relationship
  489. released
  490. releasing
  491. remember
  492. repealed
  493. report
  494. research
  495. resilient
  496. rest
  497. reverby
  498. ridiculous
  499. rob
  500. route
  501. sadly
  502. safe
  503. sax
  504. school
  505. schools
  506. screen
  507. seat
  508. seconds
  509. section
  510. sections
  511. security
  512. seeking
  513. sense
  514. sergeant
  515. series
  516. serve
  517. served
  518. service
  519. serving
  520. sets
  521. share
  522. sharing
  523. shift
  524. shit
  525. short
  526. show
  527. shut
  528. side
  529. sides
  530. silencing
  531. single
  532. skateboarding
  533. skill
  534. slay
  535. small
  536. smile
  537. sob
  538. sobbing
  539. social
  540. solitary
  541. song
  542. sort
  543. sound
  544. sounds
  545. sources
  546. space
  547. speak
  548. speakerphone
  549. special
  550. spectrum
  551. spend
  552. spent
  553. stand
  554. start
  555. started
  556. states
  557. stay
  558. steer
  559. steered
  560. steroids
  561. stopped
  562. story
  563. stressful
  564. strong
  565. struggled
  566. stuff
  567. suck
  568. suddenly
  569. sum
  570. super
  571. support
  572. supported
  573. surgery
  574. surprised
  575. surrounding
  576. sweat
  577. sweetest
  578. swirl
  579. takes
  580. talk
  581. talking
  582. taught
  583. tear
  584. terrifying
  585. theme
  586. theory
  587. therapy
  588. thinking
  589. thinks
  590. thought
  591. thoughts
  592. time
  593. times
  594. told
  595. ton
  596. top
  597. topic
  598. torn
  599. town
  600. trace
  601. training
  602. trans
  603. transgender
  604. transgenders
  605. transition
  606. transitioning
  607. transitions
  608. transmen
  609. travel
  610. traveled
  611. treated
  612. treatment
  613. true
  614. trump
  615. truth
  616. turn
  617. tweet
  618. tweets
  619. twelve
  620. tyler
  621. tylor
  622. ultimately
  623. unaware
  624. uncomfortable
  625. unique
  626. united
  627. unknowable
  628. unknown
  629. unquote
  630. unsentimental
  631. upset
  632. values
  633. varying
  634. vehicle
  635. veteran
  636. vibe
  637. videos
  638. view
  639. viewed
  640. vincent
  641. visit
  642. vocally
  643. wait
  644. wake
  645. wanted
  646. wanting
  647. war
  648. washington
  649. watch
  650. ways
  651. weaker
  652. weapons
  653. week
  654. weeks
  655. wife
  656. wilson
  657. woman
  658. wonderful
  659. work
  660. works
  661. world
  662. worst
  663. wow
  664. wracking
  665. write
  666. wrote
  667. yeah
  668. year
  669. years
  670. yep
  671. youtube